[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Vicarious Insights, a podcast where we dive into the world of disabilities, learning from experts, providers, participants and their families. I'm your host, Jace. Today we have a special guest with us, Lillian, who is a published author and professional parenting strategist. Her purpose is to guide parents to happier and healthier relationships with their children. Lillian is here to share a personal story and discuss the nurtured heart approach, a methodology that has made significant impact on many families. Lilian, welcome to the show.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Hey, Jase. Awesome to be here. Thank you.
[00:00:28] Speaker A: Thrilled to have you. Lillian, let's start with a bit about you. Can you share your journey and what led you to work in this field?
[00:00:33] Speaker B: Absolutely. Thank you so much. Well, I'm a parent of two now adult sons in their thirties. I'm a teacher. I haven't been in a traditional classroom for many, many years, not since my youngest son was about five. So 25 years or so since I've been in a classroom, I'm a parenting strategist. Because of our family's journey, my eldest son was a regular, well behaved, good kid, didn't get in trouble at school, was easygoing, just, just a good regular kid. His younger brother comes along seven and a half years later and let's just say the contrast was, was quite extreme. When he was a baby, if he wasn't breastfeeding or sleeping, he was screaming. He was a very challenging baby, which placed a lot of stress on our family. And by the time he was a two or three year old, and I know they talk about the terrible twos, but he was extremely challenging. We lived in a large country town in Victoria and there were five childcare centres. So when I decided to go back to teaching, my son was about three and a half. Just didn't cope. They didn't cope. He didn't cope. He was extremely challenging. Defiant, oppositional, hyperactive. He could have displayed acts of aggression as well, which was really, really challenging considering my husband and I are passive people. Even in our relationship of 35 years or so, we've never even had a yelling match or argument. We live in a very, very calm home. But this little boy came into this world with a real agenda. He was here to teach us some really good lessons. Three and a half years old, in his second last childcare centre, at four, he was diagnosed by a childhood psychologist with initially childhood depression, which I thought was quite interesting. If anybody was depressed, it was his mother. I was the one who wasn't coping. He was then diagnosed with ADHD and ODD and most people know of ADHD, that's attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, but ODD, oppositional defined disorder was new to me at that time, even though I was a teacher, I hadn't really heard much about that with that diagnosis. What do we do now? So everybody, from doctor to pediatrician to various psychologists, counselors, psychiatrists, every single one of them wanted to medicate him. That was their solution. And for us, and I'm not judging anybody else, but for us and for our family, that was not a path we wanted to take. So because we chose not to medicate, it then became quite an interesting journey of discovery, self discovery, and discovering a lot of things, you know, about our son and about our family situation. So it was a really, really, really interesting journey in those early years.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: I bet at that age, being diagnosed with childhood depressant, I can understand why you would not want to medicate him. I speak to a lot of. A lot of parents with the clients that I train. I get to understand that if they can see a few more things that are available or learn from somebody else's history as well, can be beneficial. So, can you tell us some pivotal moments in your journey?
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Well, there have been many. Jace, it's. Yeah, it's a long story, because our son is now in his thirties. So I have two sons, as I said, so my youngest son is now in his early thirties. Our journey really did begin with birth. There are two parts to our story, really. So there's the earlier days where we were focusing more on his health, like what I call his physiology, his physical body, and his wellbeing. Because after being diagnosed at age four with childhood depression, ADHD and odD, we just weren't prepared to take on what those practitioners shared with us. That wasn't a path we wanted to take. So we really had to start a real journey of exploration. So we started that journey out from that time, and we really focus more on the physical stuff, you know? And I'm sure a lot of people are aware of how important diet is, you know, food and toxins and our environment and all sorts of things pertaining to the child's body. But what we actually came to realize, especially over time and especially as he came into his adolescence, you know, so 1213 and 14 and beyond, we came to realize that a lot of the things that we had put a lot of effort into when he was younger, it wasn't enough. Like, it wasn't the whole puzzle. Because if you think about, for example, if you're making a cake, you know, you've got to have all the right ingredients in the cake, or it's either not going to taste very nice or it's going to flop. And we had a very amazing piece of that puzzle that was missing, which we didn't necessarily identify until it all went south. Again, that part of the puzzle was our connection and our relationship and how we were actually parenting and responding and relationshiping with our son. What I've found with a lot of the work that I do with parents over the years, and I have literally spoken to thousands of people over 25 years, either in big seminars, workshop courses, or one on ones, many thousands of people I've spoken to, I've come to realize that with our children, and this is just any children we have, they kind of fall into a couple of categories in the way that they are driven, I guess so. And just like us big people, we're the same. A lot of us are more relationship driven. And with kids, and particularly, I find the kids who tend to be diagnosed, who might be considered ASD, autistic spectrum disorder, or have had some sort of diagnosis, even kids who are more intense and challenging. So they may not have had a diagnosis, they may not need a diagnosis, but they just seem to be more demanding, more intense and challenging to both teachers and parents, they tend to be more relationship driven. So they tend to really do everything to get that relationship. And often what they'll do is they'll muck up to get that relationship. They'll misbehave, they'll do the wrong thing. Because our kids tend to be either more relationship driven, which we call heart driven, or head driven, which means they'll do more for approval. So for a teacher, for example, the kids who are more approval driven will be the ones who put up their hands, answer the questions, are compliant and cooperative because they're really wanting approval. But the kids who really want the relationship, and in my experience of talking to thousands of parents over the years, the kids who want the relationship more than the approval tend to be the kids who are the ones who would be considered more intense or challenging, or maybe even the diagnosed kids, the kids who end up with a diagnosis because they are doing everything they can possibly to seek and get that connection and relationship. And unfortunately, Jace, even with the very best of us parents, and I believe I was a really good parent, and I know if you're listening in, it means you are a good parent because you're wanting to learn more about parenting, and you're wanting to help your child and wanting to help your family. But what we don't understand and what I didn't understand and what all of the people I've coached haven't understood is that we do a lot of what we call upside down parenting. So we give a lot more attention and connection and relationship to things going wrong instead of what we can see moving forward and going right qualities. The kids have got greatness they're showing. And Jason, that is like, it's now so obvious to me when I think back to our son when he was at his really challenging time. So if you're listening in and you've got a challenging and intense child, I'll share our story a little bit and I'm sure it'll make you feel a bit better. Our son, when he was in primary school, we kind of coped through those years. It wasn't perfect, but we were doing a lot of stuff with him around, you know, his food and his diet and all that sort of stuff, working on a bunch of stuff and seeing a bunch of people. And we were kind of going, I guess, okay. Things were going along okay. But then when adolescence hit so age, you know, 13 1415, it got really, really tricky. His sense of needing and wanting that relationship, both at school and at home, really escalated. And because both the teachers and us as parents didn't get what he was seeking and needing from us, he just mucked up more and more. Because, you know what, and it's really sad, sad to think this, both as a, as a parent and a teacher, from a teacher's perspective, is that the kids who muck up most in the classroom are doing so because that's what we're giving more energy and attention to. My biggest parenting teaching moment was when my son was 15. He had already been to five childcare centres, four or five different schools, and he's now in what would become his last year at school at age 15. This particular moment, and I share this story with listeners because I think it's such an important story and it really tears at my heartstrings. But I know that by telling and sharing this story, it's going to help a lot of people because we were trying our best as parents. We were doing everything we knew what to do with as parents and as people and we were doing our very, very best. Just like I know you are if you're listening in today. We were missing what I now see as a really huge, big part of the puzzle. And this became evident for us in this incident that I probably have so much regret and remorse over. And if you are a parent of an intense and challenging child, you'll possibly relate. So our son, when he was age 15, we got yet another phone call from the school. We got many of them, right? We got so many of these calls from the school. This particular time, the school rings, it's mid afternoon, so it's after lunchtime, but it's not yet home time. They called us to say our son had mucked up at lunchtime such and so had happened. It was serious. He's going to be suspended for 20 days. And he was constantly being suspended, by the way, for 20 days. I'm like, wow, that's pretty major. What's happened? Well, you'll need to come in to discuss, but we're really just calling you to let you know he's taken off, he's not at school. I was waiting for him to get home and as you can imagine, if you're a parent, I was getting madder and madder and madder. Look, how could he do this again? Like, you know, it's embarrassing to get all these phone calls from the school anyway. He gets home from school at a reasonable time, actually, maybe hoping that the school hadn't called me. And this is where my heartstrings are just so pulled, because instead of me being his biggest supporter and fan in this moment, I did what we now call so much upside down parenting, we, as soon as he walked in the door, instead of saying, hey, love, how was your day? I got a phone call from the school. I believe you know you had some challenges today. Tell me your side of the story. I went straight into, what did you do? Why did you do it? How can you do this? I'm over these phone calls. It's like, can't you get it right? Can't you just behave? And the poor kid, who's obviously already copped a lot from at school, gets home hoping that the person who should have been his biggest supporter and fan, his mum, didn't even give him a second to express himself or to explain anything. So he must have been so frustrated in that moment. He said, bleep bleep bleep. Use your imaginations, some nice language, I'm out of here. It's quite a long story, but I'll cut to the chase with it a little bit. So four or 5 hours later, my husband's driving around looking for him. He hadn't come home. We were worried about him. He wasn't answering his phone and I thought he was just blowing off steam, but he must have been. So nobody gets me, I can't get it right. At school, I'm not getting it right. At home, nobody understands me. I'm just. I'm a bad kid. I can't get it right because I'm constantly being told that right in that 5 hours. Jace, he consumed who knows what, but when my husband found him, he was in a drunken stupor in the gutter. He wasn't. He didn't know who he was, where he was. He had consumed and taken a whole bunch of stuff, and he must have just been feeling so bad about himself. And it's not to blame myself as a parent or for parents to feel bad if our kids go and do stuff like this, but when I think about his sense of self in that moment, must have been so bad. When he did eventually come home, it took him literally two days. He was on a mattress in the lounge room so we could watch him. In that time, we coached with our parenting coach. So I don't even know if I've told this part of the story, but we had a parenting coach we just got in the States who was really helping us to see how important the way we communicate in relationship with our son is, because the words we use, he said, can be weapons, or they can be powerful influences for positive, so they can tear somebody down, or they can build somebody up. And we were using our words a lot to tear our son down, and I'm sure he was getting that at school as well. So he's getting it from everywhere. What hope is. The poor kid got to feel good about himself. So, anyway, in this. In this interim, while he's in this drunken stupor, we got some advice from our parenting coach that really started to change the trajectory of our family and our life. You know, he basically said, be his biggest supporter and fan. There's nothing to gain from going over what he did, why he did it, what he took, what the consequences of that are. Just be there to love and support him and be his biggest supporter and fan, which was difficult for me because I wanted to go into that upside down way. I had all these questions, but I had to really reset myself a lot back to just allowing him to get through the situation and us to be there to support him. So that was a huge part of our journey. Jason, say pivotal. Like, that was truly a pivotal point, because from then on, we really got how important our words and how we respond to things happening in our kids lives, and one more little story, and then I'll let you ask another question, because while it's in my head. So from that healing journey, my third book, the Revolting Child, a blessing in disguise. I wrote after this incident and after we did some coaching with our parenting coach and we kind of got through a really difficult situation. Say it might have been nine or ten months beyond that incident with the school and the drunken stupor. I've wrote my book in six weeks. It poured out of me. It's not a little book either. It's 220 pages and it tells our story from my pregnancy and his birth right through until he was just short of 16.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: You did that in six weeks?
[00:15:35] Speaker B: Six weeks, yeah.
[00:15:36] Speaker A: Six weeks. Wow. Okay.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: I was just on a mission, right? And the interesting thing is I had to get everybody's permission to write it because it's a real tell all story. I had to get my husband's permission, my eldest son's permission, my youngest son's permission. It's very like airing the dirty laundry. And I was just totally transparent. I just said it like it was. A lot of people have just loved reading this story because they're like, oh, it's just so relatable. But anyway, in this book launch, and the reason I'm telling these couple of stories is because, like, I could just start teaching you stuff, but by telling you these stories and having parents listen to these stories, they're going to be like, okay, now I know, like, there are other people who are feeling what I'm feeling. There are other people who have gone through what I'm going through, and they got through it. So I'll share with you what we did to get through it later, but I'll just quickly tell this story at the book launch. So my husband and I had. It was about 250 people at the book launch, and we told our story. We were then having a q and a. We've been asked a heap of questions. And one man put his hand up and said, can I ask your son a question? And I kind of looked across the back of the room and he's like, oh, yeah, I guess so. Like, he wasn't. He wasn't 100% keen, but he said. He stood up and the man said, so we've just heard your mum and dad's story of where things were at just ten months ago, and we now see where things are at now. The dad said, my question to you, and this is to our son, is, what was it that took you from where you were just that short 910 months ago to where things are now? And my ears were literally like, what a great question. I hadn't even thought to ask that myself. And my son I could see his mind ticking over for a couple of minutes and what he said was really profound and I love it. He said, when I saw the effort that my mum and dad went to to be the best parents they could be, I just wanted to be the best son.
[00:17:35] Speaker A: It's like a hit you right there one, isn't it? Yeah.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: That's why I do this work. That's why I help parents to navigate that. Because when their kids see them making the effort and even if they muck up and even if they make mistakes, but their kids see them making an effort to be a better version of themselves, a better parent, a better mum, a better dad, then they just want to be better. That's why this work is so important.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: You're talking earlier that you've got the two types, the ones that are going for approval and the ones that are.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: Going for more relationships.
[00:18:10] Speaker A: Is there times when a child might be on the approval side and then circumstances happen and they actually flip over and become on the other side? So it's not like this or you are that.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: No, no. It's not like you are this heart kid or a head kid. We're all a combination of both. But some kids will go to more effort to get the connection and relationship than they will approval. Like these are the kids who we would perceive and call the misbehaving kids because they don't care about the approval so much. They just want that connection and relationship. And they're the kids who will muck up, do the wrong thing, break the rules, not listen in class, not follow the rules at home, not do what they're meant to do, because they're seeking that connection and relationship. But unfortunately, because we don't know what we don't know, we are giving it to them at the wrong time. We're giving it to them when they are mucking up and breaking rules and not being the way they should be, instead of helping them to see that they can have as much connection and relationship as they want if we give it to them in a right side way up. And you're probably wondering what all that means, but I'll get to that.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: I have a habit of like, jumping three steps ahead.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: I do too. All good. And you can listen to ten of my interviews and they'll all be different because I keep, you know, I jump around and tell different parts of the story. What I feel needs to be said in the moment because there's so much, a long journey, obviously, that I've had.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: So that's the I'm being. Not consciously, but I'm being naughty because I know when I'm naughty, mum has to spend time with me, so I'm getting time with mum.
[00:19:47] Speaker B: That's the thing that. That was a huge learning for me because think about your last 24, 48 hours. When have you connected more with your kids? More often than not. Especially if they're at a kid who's a little bit more intense. We've given more of us now in the nurtured heart approach, we call it. We're their favorite toy. So let's just say the kids are playing nicely. Your mum's cooking dinner, watching a video or playing a game or just reading, and everything's going well. So in this moment, the kids are not getting any connection or relationship because mum's like, phew, they're quiet. I'll just get on with cooking dinner. But as soon as there's some ruckus or some noise or some fighting or some yelling or you can hear something being thrown straight away, mum's into the lounge room or wherever they are, even if she's in the middle of cooking dinner. And the kids get to learn when I muck up, that's when mum or dad or teacher or whoever comes to life and when I'm being good, I don't get so much of that connection relationship. Now, we might get a little bit of good job well done, which we call junk food praise, but they don't get that real, nourishing, juicy connection and relationship. And for some kids, that doesn't matter as much. But for these kids who are. Who really crave that connection and relationship, they get to learn. The way I get connection and relationship is when I muck up and then it becomes a thing, right? And my son, you know, we've had conversations since he's been an adult and he said, well, that's exactly how it was because he was wanting that and that's the only way he learned to get it. And then he decided if he was going to get that when he was being bad or mucking up, he said, I might as well be good at it. So he was good at mucking up and being bad and that's when he got more attention and connection relationship. But when he was doing the right thing, it's almost like he was invisible. Nobody noticed him when he was at school. Like, I don't care how challenging a kid might be in inverted commas, they cannot be challenging 24/7 there have to be moments of them showing great qualities and following the rules and doing the right thing. Even the most challenging kid is not so clever to be that challenging all the time. But we're not looking out for those moments. So that's. And I'll. I might jump into the nurtured heart approach because I'm kind of starting to explain it. Is that okay?
[00:22:05] Speaker A: That's going to be my next question. So, yes.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: Yeah, great. Because we learned all this stuff from our parenting coach, but not in such a structured way. So when I learned about the nurtured heart approach, and that was only eleven years ago, I fell in love with it because it was so in alignment with what I knew to be truth and what we'd already learned from our parenting coach, Frank, over two years, probably hundreds of hours of coaching with him. I remember it cost a lot of money.
The nurtured heart approach is based on three stands. So what happens, Jace? When you stand for something, you're really strong and you're like, I really stand for that. It means you're strong and you're resolute. So the three stands in the nurtured heart are absolutely no. Absolutely yes and absolutely clear. So absolutely no is I will not give attention, connection, relationship and energy to things going wrong. So if you think about it, I'll use my watering can as an analogy. So I've got this watering can that I use. What are you watering and giving energy to? Anybody who deals with kids. Imagine you've got some plants outside that you want to water. Fill your watering can with nice water, some plant nutrients, and you go outside. None of us are on purpose going to go outside and put that beautiful, nutrient rich water straight on the weeds. Why? Because we don't want the weeds to grow. What do we want to grow? The flowers, the plants, the herbs, the veggie patch. But in our relationships, a lot of us are watering the things we don't want to grow. The disrespect, they're not listening, they're not being cooperative, they're not following the rules. That's when we give all of the juicy connection to the relationship stand. One is to make a really big effort to not give your connection and relationship to things going wrong. Now, that's not always easy, because instinctively, generationally, that's what we do. We give more of ourselves, more connection, more attention, more relationship to things going wrong. And that's not just in parenting, by the way. That's in life in general.
Stan? Two is absolutely yes. So this is the part I love. Yes. I'm going to give you attention, connection and relationship and recognition. For things going wrong, right? Or steps towards things going right. So, for a very intense and challenging child who might have, in the prior moments, been disrespectful. Okay, I'll give you an example. So, Jason, you've just been angry with me, you've yelled at me, you've been disrespectful, you've called me names, and you've just not been a good kid. Right? So I haven't given that attention or connection or relationship. But now you're not yelling or screaming or calling me names. So. So, Jace, I know you are upset with mum when I said no, when you couldn't do that thing, and you got really upset, and you said some things that weren't nice. But here you are now you're looking at me. You're calming yourself down, and I can see you being really respectful. In this moment, you're using a lot of great self control, because I know you probably still want to be arguing and you know, and getting your way, but you're not. You're showing me some great self control. In this moment, you're really being respected. They might not be totally being respectful or showing great self control, but they're taking steps towards that. So what we want to do is we want to have the kid feel like they're being respectful. Because when we're telling them they're being respectful and they've got great self control, they're more likely to do that. And then the more opportunities we find to show them that they're a respectful kid, that they're using great self control, that they're kind, that they're thoughtful, that they follow instructions. The more we tell them that, the more they'll want to be that. And also, that's when they're getting the connection and relationship from us instead of how we typically would do it. You've just mucked up now, Jace. That wasn't very respectful. It wasn't nice how you. You know, you spoke to me like that. You really need to show me more respect. So in the moment when you're being disrespectful, it's not really the time to teach respect. The time to teach the respect is when you're showing signs of being respectful, or you just. Just outright are being respectful. Dan two is where we learn the new language. And there's way too much for me to share on this short time, but it's about ways of teaching language and recognition technique to embrace the greatness that they see in their kids, acknowledge the qualities that the kids are showing in the moment so that the kids will feel a sense of, I am a respectful person, a cooperative kid. I do use great self control instead of I'm always disrespectful, I'm always getting in trouble. I can't get it right. We have this thing in the nurtured heart approach that we call building a portfolio of greatness. Or we call it inner wealth. So building inner wealth, you work with kids and I don't know if you work with. Do you work with teenage kids?
[00:26:54] Speaker A: So the youngest I'm working with at the moment is ten. And I go right up from that. So, yes. The answer is yes. Think about everything you're saying. I'm like, oh, this is what I should be doing.
[00:27:04] Speaker B: I know, I'm giving you a lot. I'm giving you a lot. It's a lot to process. I know. But a lot of kids, particularly 14, 1516 and beyond, have not all kids, but a lot of kids have a sense of self that is, I'm not good enough. I can't get it right. Nobody understands me, I'm always getting in trouble. They don't feel the connection that they really desire from the people who mean the most to them. These kids build a portfolio of I'm not good enough. So that when they are a little bit older and they go out into the world and get their own relationships and have jobs and stuff, their sense of self, their self respect, their self love, their self esteem, their self worth isn't where we would hope it would be, because they're being told, not with intent, but they've been told, often by teachers, by parents, by other adults of influence, that they're not good enough. Because we keep telling them, you know, and giving that attention and connection and relationship at the times when they're mucking up, instead of finding all the opportunities to tell them that we see their greatness. My goal is to help parents to build inner wealth in their children and in themselves. Another whole topic about building our own inner wealth as adults. So I'll quickly go to Stan three, because I could talk about Stan two, forever picturing a kid that's just had.
[00:28:22] Speaker A: A crappy day at school where clearly he's been told a lot of that sort of stuff. Potentially, you're the next person that's going to see them, and you could be either adding to that or helping to heal. What would be your best advice in that situation? Kids got into the car after school, he's had the crappy day. How's the best way to help him out thinking about people with autism. Come home and they can finally unload all of that crap.
[00:28:44] Speaker B: Absolutely. Huge, huge, huge, huge and awesome. Excellent question. When we were picking our son up from childcare, remember, we went to five childcare centres over two years, got kicked out of the mall because of his behavior. When we went to pick him up, the educators, the carers, not intentionally, I'm sure, offloaded all the stuff he did wrong, all the misbehaviours he did, all of the kids he hit were not listening. All of the bad stuff. We got books and books and books. Of all the stuff he did wrong, you know, they kept communication books. So guess what happened as soon as he got in the car, I went all my upside down parenting, and keeping in mind I'm a teacher and I'm a reasonably intelligent person, I still focused on all the stuff he did wrong because that's what was in my head. That's what I'd just been told. If I knew what I now know, I wouldn't. I would have just focused on something he did well today, so I can grow that. Oh, he played nicely with Johnny in the sandpit. So then in the car, instead of focusing on the nine out of the ten things he did wrong, he played nicely with Johnny in the sandpit. Oh, that's so lovely that you played nicely with Johnny in the sand pit. You know what? That really shows me? You're such a good friend. You're so kind. You know, you're playing nicely with your friend. You're a really good friend. I could have focused on the other, the nine out of the ten things that they said he hit such and so he did such and so he did that. But by focusing on the thing he did well and having him feel good because he already feels pretty crappy because he knows nine out of the ten things he did today were not good. But by focusing on something he did well or even just hijacking, here's a good example for you. There was a little kid who, my mentor, Howard Glasser, who's the founder of the nurtured heart approach, was coaching this dad and this little boy, five years old, he was very challenging. And the parents said to Howard Glasser, he never does anything right. I don't have anything to acknowledge him for. So he felt like he couldn't do anything in the stand to. There wasn't anything to acknowledge him for. He never behaved. He didn't give us the opportunity to tell him he was a good kid. So Howard Glasser taught him about hijacking and this is a really good tip for those parents whose kids don't give them as many opportunities to acknowledge he taught him about hijacking. So hijacking is where you look for a situation where you can kind of hijack the situation to show the kid that they're doing well. So this dad was taking the son to school, and every day the kid didn't listen, didn't do what he was asked, but he had to close the door to get in the car. The dad thought really quickly, going to help my kid to be successful. He knew the kid had to close the door to get into the car. So before he did, he said, johnny, I need you to close the door on the car, please. He hijacked him to be successful. Thank you so much for listening. When I ask you to close the door, that really shows me that you're listening, that you're being cooperative, and that you're ready to have a great day, and let's get to school on time. One win. Next thing. Seat belt. He's already had a success. Johnny, I need you to put your seatbelt on. Click, in goes the seatbelt. Thank you so much, Johnny, for listening. When I asked you to put your seatbelt on, that means you really care about your safety. Just reinforcing. This kid's already had two wins, and he's just got in the car. So he's already probably set to have a better day on that day than he would have on prior days when mum and dad were probably saying they remember not to do this and don't misbehave, and all this sort of stuff. Guess what happened with this? This is a real life story. This kid, within about two months, who never listened, who never got it right, who never was cooperative or compliant, was an amazing kid who listened and followed the rules and got things done because his sense of self was being filled. This is how vital this work is. When we can start telling kids that we see their greatness, that we see their qualities, even if this kid might normally be mucking up, but you can find something to acknowledge them for, even the smallest thing and build on that. Then that kid's like, yeah, you know, and then that helps to have a more positive rollercoaster journey instead of the negative one where they're always getting into trouble. And the more they start to feel good about themselves, the more the parent starts to feel good about the situation, the more confident the parent is looking for ways to acknowledge the kid, the better the kid feels. And it ends up being a much more positive.
[00:33:08] Speaker A: That's awesome. And they're going to find more reasons. They're going to be like, well, they patted my back. Good feelings. What if I do this? Look at this. Hey, dad, I did a. I dug a hole. Well done for the Castle Australian movie. Dad always celebrates the wins.
[00:33:22] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And it's not about like, making our kids, you know, like that. It's not that they have to do the right thing to get recognition from us, but we want to have them feel good about themselves and particularly a lot of these kids who are these really intentionally, we want them to see that as parents, we all think that we're using positive language with our kids. And it's not just about positive versus negative. It's about really looking for the opportunities to build the greatness. If you're a parent and you're listening, or anybody who works with kids. If I were to ask you, and I'm about to get on a coaching call with a family, and this is what I'm going to ask them, what would be some of the top, top qualities you would love to see your child, adolescent, teenager, young adult exhibit in the future when they're out in the world, working, having a business, making relationships, having a relationship, getting married, what are the qualities that you would love to see them being strong in? And usually parents don't vary that much. We want them to have integrity, be kind and thoughtful, good people, make good decisions, be resilient, be a contributing person in the society, to be able to feel good about who they are as a person and what they do. So all of these things that we want our children to be good at or to have in what we call their portfolio, these are the things that we have to concentrate on working on. So if we, if integrity is really important and telling the truth, for example, they're the things you've got to focus on. Instead of focusing on them telling a lie or not telling the truth or not showing integrity, you've got to look for the opportunity where even if nine times out of ten they might tell porky pies, but then they tell the truth on something or they come clean. That's when you have to say, I love how you were vulnerable enough to tell me the truth, then I know it might have been scary for you telling me the truth, but you did. And you know what? That shows me that you have a lot of integrity. The truth is important to you and I really value that and I really appreciate it. So then the kid's going to be, oh, good. You know, when I tell the truth, mum or dad or whoever really acknowledges that and sees that as a quality and the more you can do that. And sometimes they'll say to parents, just pick one or two things at a time that are really important to you. It might be following instructions, being cooperative, getting ready for school on time, playing nicely with their sibling, whatever that thing is. You've got to look for all those opportunities to acknowledge that the child is doing that or moving towards doing that. Because sometimes you've got to do that hijacking that we talked about. Sometimes you've got look for what we call the baby steps towards that behavior. The more we tell them, I love how you're being respectful in this moment. While that really showed a lot of respect. Gee, that was respectful when you spoke to your dad like that. The more the kids going to see themselves as being respectful as opposed to the opposite. When we're continually telling them they're not listening, they're not being respectful. What are we putting energy into as the adult into our conversations? Are we building the things that we want to grow or are we watering the weeds? Water what you want to grow. Water what you want to grow. Water what you want to grow. If something is happening that you don't want to water it, don't give it as much attention, connection and relationship. Look for the opportunity to water the things you want to grow. It's not always easy for parents to do. It takes a real mind shift.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: I imagine that while you're watering the things that you want to grow, you're also going to be watering their self. Talk with that as well. That's just like, oh, I am a good person. I am reliable because I've got proof.
[00:36:58] Speaker B: You just hit the nail on the head. We have to give them irrefutable proof. Okay, you just said the word reliable. If we want them to feel reliable, we've got to keep telling them we see them being reliable. You are reliable. Look how reliable you're being. Even just the smallest, little tiny things that show them that they're being reliable. And we've got to build on that till they're like, yeah, I'm reliable. Cool.
[00:37:21] Speaker A: I love this stuff.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: You do need a lot of downloads on it because it is a whole new way of using words that we already know in our vocabulary. But we're just using them in a different way. And from working with so many parents, when they first hear it, they go, oh, this makes sense. But it's not always easy. And that's why when I'm coaching parents. And when I do my courses, I have a lifetime membership because I want parents to be able to connect into the community, to be a part of, you know, the education and the ongoing calls, because they might be going all right for six months, and then they might hit a bit of a brick wall. So they need to come back in again. They need some more energy from the group. They need to re hone their skills. I've fallen down a bit into the badland of negativity, we call it again, which happened, right. We're humans. We're not perfect.
[00:38:12] Speaker A: And that's okay to not be perfect, especially as a parent. I mean, you're going to have emotions make that happen.
[00:38:17] Speaker B: Perfection is not required. We want to show our kids, too, that, you know, we do make mistakes. We are humans. But here's what we can do, is we can reset, which will lead me into Stan three. So stand three is absolutely clear. So, Jace, that's about having clarity, because so many parents go, yeah, but what about the rules, the consequences, the punishments? So our stand three in nurtured heart approach is quite different to conventional ways of consequences and or punishment. We want the child to be able to acknowledge, yes, I've made a mistake. I marked up. I broke a rule. I was disrespectful. But we want them to be able to reset back to their greatness. Do you. Have you ever played a video game? I can see video game play way too many.
Tell me, what happens when you muck up in a video game?
[00:39:06] Speaker A: Oh, so again you go and you try again. Yeah.
[00:39:09] Speaker B: And you might learn from that mistake. Oh, I shouldn't have done that. Such and so in the game. So the game does not nag you, not send you to your room for timeout because you're mucked up. It allows you to reset. So you take a few seconds and you're back in the game again. This is what we want to do with our parenting. So when the kid mucks up, we want to help teach them to self regulate. So when they muck up, they're disrespectful or what have you reset and get back in the game again. We're not there to punish them. Their timeouts and punishments do not work. The only time they're perceived to work is through fear and intimidation, but they don't work. We want to teach the kids to self regulate so they know what the rules are, what is expected of them at home and or at school. When they muck up, they get kicked out of the video game reset and get back in the game again, and then we're going to be there to celebrate them for their reset and getting back in the game again, being cooperative or listening or whatever was happening in that moment. There are going to be circumstances where we need to talk about consequences, but the general incidental things that are happening throughout the day that might frustrate as parents, if we can teach the kid to self regulate, then they're going to be able to reset. The best way to teach them is for us, parents, educators and caregivers to model the reset. Let's just say the kids are mucking up in the background. Kids, I just need a moment because I need to reset. I'm feeling a bit escalated, angry. Whatever your feeling is, we want to be able to acknowledge their feelings. I need to reset. So we're going to model to the kids that instead of reacting in that moment, whatever you need to do, punch a punching bag, squeeze a squeezy ball to get yourself back. Now I can get back into the game with a bit more clarity, looking for things going right or a solution to the challenge that's happening. Instead of going into that default mode, yelling, screaming, go to your room, you're punished, you're grounded. All the stuff that we tend to do. So naturally, we're giving our bodies the opportunity ourselves to self regulate and to reset so that we can handle the situation with more clarity and with more positivity. Looking for the things that we want to grow instead of focusing on the things we don't. Now stand. Three can be challenging for some people because their idea of parenting is that we must punish. But when you teach kids to naturally reset and self regulate, it's beautiful because kids identify, they're mucked up, and kids will even tell the parents, hey, mum, I think you need to reset because mum might be escalated, dad might be escalated. The idea of the reset gives us the opportunity, and I have a little. Little acronym that I use, the boP, bop. Breathe. The really important part, the o, is to open your heart. So while you, you know, you're just breathing out the frustration, but whilst you're opening your heart is okay. How do I want to feel? Do I want to feel angry? Yelling, be screaming at the kids? Do I want to send them to their rooms? Usually not. That's not how we want to feel. How do we want the kids to feel? Do we want them to be angry? Or do we want them to calm themselves down? Do we want to calm ourselves down? Down. So open your heart into feeling how you want to feel. And the p is just to pause. So just take those few seconds to pause and feel into what it is you want to grow, what it is and how you want to be feeling, rather than focusing on the frustrations that are happening in the moment, which is what we tend to do as parents, especially when things are going not the way we want them to. The whole three stands, jace, are like a dance. I call it the nurtured heart dance, because at any given moment, you're going to be dancing the steps. It might be, okay, I'm in stand two. I'm acknowledging and recognizing things going well. Or it might be, I need to be in stand three. I need to reset myself because I'm feeling escalated. Or it might be stand one. Okay. I'm not giving energy to what's going on there. I'm not giving that attention. I'm looking for something to acknowledge. My hope is that you'll be forever doing the nurtured heart dance, because you're going to weave in and out of the three stands of the nurtured heart approach so naturally. And I see my parents, and I see the people who do my courses do this so beautifully. Parents who were prior yellers and naggers and punishers, who are now doing the nurtured heart dance. The kids are flourishing, the parents are happier, the kids are feeling happier and healthier. Their communications happier and healthier. Everybody's happier, and everybody's feeling better than they were when they were doing it the old way.
[00:43:31] Speaker A: In the moment, something's going on. You need to address it, but you don't want to be noticing the behavior. You don't want happening. So you can't focus on that.
[00:43:40] Speaker B: You can still address it. So some people get a bit confused. So it's not ignoring, it's just not giving it a lot of energy. So where in the past, if the kids were fighting, you might say, hey, kids, stop that fighting. Ra ra, you might just say, kids, I need you to calm down, please. You can give them something just short and sharp, or if somebody's being hurt or somebody's damaging something, of course you've got to remove the child that's being hurt or the child who's doing it. We're not ignoring. We're just not energizing it. We want to put the fire out, but we don't want to put more fuel on it. The steps of the dance can be quite intricate in those moments. You're not giving attention to that, but you're looking for an opportunity to show either the kid who's mucked up or the kid who's been hurt, called names or what have you to actually give some recognition where it's due. Kids are such fast learners when it comes to this and, and they really soon realize it feels better. Because if you sat any kid down and said, would you rather in our house that you get punished, that mum and dad scream and yell and send you to your room, you get privileges taken away and you can't do things that you want to do, or would you rather have a happy and healthy and cooperative home? Most kids would rather that the kids are old enough you can actually have that discussion with them and not make it about them and their misbehavior, but make it about me, the adult, the parent, the caregiver, the teacher. I need to work on myself so that I can communicate in relationship better. And here's what I'm doing. I'm learning all this new stuff. It's going to feel weird. The language is going to be weird because I don't normally talk this way. I'm going to be doing stuff that I don't normally do, but I want to improve me because I don't feel good about how I'm communicating and relationshiping in this home. I don't feel good about yelling and screaming all the time. I don't feel good about sending to your room, your room. I don't feel good about this, want to improve me. So instead of the kid feeling like you're trying to fix them, they're actually seeing you work on yourself and the natural consequence of that is going to be things are going to be better for them as well. And they'll learn quickly if they learn this dance as well, that the house is going to be a happier, cooperative, loving place to be in. And that's what everybody wants.
[00:45:51] Speaker A: And I suppose it's got to be a bit cyclical as well. They're realizing that you're showering this love and attention on them for dinner and they're probably like, well, hang on, that feels nice. I want mum to feel nice. I'm gonna show us some attention to her and it's like, oh, whoa, thank you. Yeah. So that thing goes backwards and forwards and then they get to see how that feels to make mum feel good.
[00:46:12] Speaker B: Oh yeah. The kids, when the kids get it, they are so good at it and they'll even start practicing it on their friends or their friends parents or their teachers because I want to feel this way if they're getting the nurtured heart at home but not at school. And at school there's contrast like that. They don't like the feel of what's happening at school. They're going to want that feeling at school too, or vice versa if they're getting at school and not at home. Kids will tell the adults, you know, and they will actually acknowledge the parents as well. I've got story after story after story of kids really giving it back to their parents in a positive way, acknowledging their parents even for the efforts their parents make, even if their parents are mucking up. I see you are trying, mum. Kids are so good at.
[00:47:00] Speaker A: I can see you trying, but you're like, you're right, I am trying.
[00:47:05] Speaker B: So it's a real thing that we model. So we can either model the system that we don't want to put in place or the one that we do.
[00:47:12] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I tell people when I'm talking to them face to face, like if I zone out and I look like I'm looking off into the distance, I'm filing things in my filing system. I'm probably going to repeat this on these podcasts a fair bit. Like, I can. He's filing stuff away and I am.
[00:47:27] Speaker B: That's all good.
[00:47:28] Speaker A: As we're talking, I'm thinking about different clients, different ways that I can probably implement this.
[00:47:33] Speaker B: And it couldn't be not only to the kids, but it could be if you're working with the parents as well, you can say it to the parents. You know what the biggest compliment to a parent is? Complimenting their kid. Hey, you know what? Johnny was so kind and thoughtful today. Susie fell over and hurt herself. And Johnny was a really good friend. And parents love to hear that kids have done well, that they've done something nice, particularly if they're a kid who tends to normally muck up and they normally get the report of the misdemeanor that happened, but they get something good instead. There are so many things I could share with you, like greatness notes and things that, you know, you could give a kid today. You showed the greatness of being resilient or to being a kind friend. Write it on a little stick it note. Give the kids something to give to their parent that shows today. Susie showed the greatness of resilience. She tried really, really hard at whatever you were doing and give them that to take their parent. The kid's going to be like, what? I got mum and dad and the parents going to be like, wow, that's amazing. So it's going to be. So you're going to feel you're going to get.
[00:48:30] Speaker A: That's actually, yeah, I'm going to apply this. I've got a little thing that I do. One of the boys actually came up with it and I've extended on the idea. Now I'm going to further extend on the idea from this, our captaincy program. The guys that have been in there for longer get to take the new guys under their shoulder as a bit of responsibility. Oh look, you got a captain point because you helped little Johnny and I didn't have to ask you to do it, you just did it. And they're like, oh, that's good. So I get to see them feeling good about it. I never actually thought about making sure that the parents are aware of that because that's a double win. The parents get to feel good and know the positive things that are happening. Little Johnny gets to feel good because they're seeing mum's dad's eyes.
[00:49:06] Speaker B: Oh yeah, it's powerful. It's a snowball effect. And a little tip for you, when you're complimenting or acknowledging or recognizing, the best thing you can say is give the recognition. And then what that shows me is that you're so responsible that you're showing great signs of leadership. Whatever they did well. And what that shows me is you're then telling them the quality that you see in them. Not that they just did something good, but what that shows about you as a person.
[00:49:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:36] Speaker B: Yeah, that's where the power is.
[00:49:38] Speaker A: Yeah, cool. Thank you for the warm fuzzy there. I'm like, oh, that's sort of what I do.
Yeah, cool.
[00:49:43] Speaker B: It feels good. We all love to be acknowledged and recognized as adults. We don't get it enough. So you're imagining they've got a portfolio. We want that portfolio to be filling up. What, do we want that portfolio to be full of all the negative stuff? Or do we want it to be full of knowing that they have that greatness, that they have those qualities, that they will attract positive things in their lives, that they do deserve success, that they do deserve to have a great relationship and partner, that they deserve to enjoy the work they do, that they deserve to have people be kind to them, all of these things. And we want these young people to feel that they are a good person, not that they're crap, they're not good enough, that nobody cares. Because so many young people now lock themselves in their bedrooms and play video games all day because their home is not a place that makes them feel valued. I know they feel loved because their parents love them. I could go on and on about this.
[00:50:35] Speaker A: That's the whole podcast on its own.
Could you share any long term success stories or specific examples of how this approach has benefited the families you work with?
[00:50:46] Speaker B: Absolutely. There are hundreds. Last year I had this couple I knew the female, she started the course on her own and then she dragged hubby in. Now hubby is a gorgeous man, like a big bikey looking guy with a big beard, a real Aussie sort of guy. And he was really standoffish initially. After the second week he changed and then he became the hugest advocate for. He said, you know what, I thought this was some tree hugging rubbish. When his partner first asked him to participate. Because I always say to the parents, if you have a parenting partner, it's vital they be involved. You need to be parenting back to back. Now this man said, lillian, I want to thank you. Not only am I a better father, husband, I'm a better person. I feel better about myself. The kids don't feel like they have to step on eggshells with me now. We have great relationships and I'm just a different person. And that was a big tough guy who thought it was some stupid tree hugging thing. So I've had examples of adult who have mended their relationship with their parents, with siblings and people other than their kids. When you see the families whose kids acknowledge their parents for the efforts they've made, like our son did for us, they're the beautiful things that happen. We feel better in ourselves when we can acknowledge and see the greatness in people.
[00:52:01] Speaker A: Wins everywhere.
[00:52:02] Speaker B: Win wins for sure. I want people to be able to really learn this stuff. Like it's just the way they communicate in relationship now. I've got so many of my parents, they send me examples of things that are happening. I'm so proud of them and they're proud of themselves too. I've got one mum in my group who has a child diagnosed with autism. The distance that that mum and that daughter have come, plus the sister who you to cop a lot because of the sister being so challenging, she says it's not perfect but boy they are having results in leaps and bounds because the mother was prepared to do the work. What I teach is not going to be for everybody. You have to be prepared to do the work and you have to be prepared to make the changes and to work on yourself. If we want those better relationships and connections with our kids, we have to work on ourselves first. We have to be the change. For the change to happen, we are.
[00:52:54] Speaker A: Going to have to cut this in half. So we'll come back with a part two. In that part two, we're going to be able to speak a bit more specifically about people with disability.
[00:53:03] Speaker B: So whether there's a disability factor or not, this works for everybody.
[00:53:09] Speaker A: Okay, cool. Thank you for sharing your story and insights with us today, Lillian. Where can our listeners find more out about you and your work?
[00:53:15] Speaker B: Lillian Ricky, parenting strategist on Facebook is probably my main platform parent support network.
Email is
[email protected] au I will provide.
[00:53:26] Speaker A: Some links, and I look forward to having a chat with you next week.
